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Post Info TOPIC: IAP on supercharged BKing


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IAP on supercharged BKing


Can you increase the spring pressure a bit to keep the bypass closed? The extra boost may not cause any issues (other than a torque increase ) and it could eliminate the issue.

You could put the bike in TPS only mode (in the advance settings) and give it a try to see if it changes the characteristics just for testing.



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 6th of June 2012 08:37:46 PM

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Hello to all. Justin pointed me here from the BKing.org. I got a Rotrex supercharger on my Bking and using EcE with the logbox for tuning . Bike has been on dyno, TPS is set. All bike info on the BKing .org (http://www.suzukib-king.org/t7071-rotrex-supercharger) Just some finetuning to get fuel on TPS closer to the target AFR. On TPS it's running well, but IAP gives some problems. At the switching point between IAP and TPS( cruising around 3000rpm/3500rpm) when boost starts to come in, it's hard to get fueling spot on. Little change of throttle position make it stutter. I think it has to do with the bypass valve, which is on the plenum. At that point it's opened a little to vent boost from the charger, little throttle changes make it close and again open.  Would it make a difference to place the bypass at the up pipe i.o the plenum?  or any other suggestions. Thanks for your input. grtz Kees



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Have you reset the secondary tps and fuel

and how did you map the bike ,mapping tps with the bypass open then adjust for pressure with boostfuel or doing it all on tps

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Thanks to both of you. @Sportbikeryder: it's no problem to set the spring, did it before but just opposit, losen it a bit to keep it open more easy. I'll give it a try and increase pressure.
@May750: settings : secundairies throttle plates all open all the way , sec. injek. set 50/50 all the way. TPS fueling from 40% and > on dyno. Bypass then closed off course, no vacuum. As far as i know, bypass has to open to vent pressure when plates are nearly closed. I can run 4000RPM and maybe more with throttleplates allmost closed. But the charger is driven by belt on the cranck so will give the same amount of air as when throttle plates are fully opened. So it seems to me important not to increase the spring pressure to much. When valve is closed, no problems. It's the area were it's just a little open. So just enough vacuum to pull it open and just not enough for the spring to close it. Btw, it's vents to open air, so not back to the inlet side of the charger.

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ok if your mapping on tps but your air volume and pressure are dependant on engine vac at that problem area i can see how that could affect the running

I am just waiting for someone to bring a supercharged bike to me as i would like to play with editor and the boost fueling and boost control , gearing the supercharger for max intended pressure or hp then controlling the rise /gear with a bov with air pressure setup on the diaphram like a wastegate , and with variable pressure would need boost fueling rather than tps


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Boost fueling option was not neccesary on my bike, it's pretty lineair pressure. Easier to set fueling straight in the TPS fuel map. I just changed pulley ratio from 85/80 to 78/80, to make charger run slower to keep boost level a bit lower. Running stock fuel pressure, so at a certain point i'm out of fuel. Till now, at about 10000 rpm afr 11.2 i've got no problems running out of fuel or leaning out. I don't know exact boost level, just checked on the gauge on the dyno( around 12 psi) . Boostlevel at that time was not shown on EcE. Justin made it work again. So have to run max. on the road to figure out on the logfile or put it back on the dyno. Blow off valve is also used on my bike as bypass.
Please let me know when the bike comes in and how it's doing.

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Not someone in particular ... anyone :)

12 psi is not to bad what sort of hp does that work out to ?

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Sorry, maybe i was not specifik. I'm not meaning who it belongs, just let us know how it's doing. Could be good info to me, next winter i'm planning to put a 1;1 fuel pressure reg. on it and a fuel return line and set overdrive pully on it to see what power it can really make. Charger will easy do 16 psi and more, bit depending how good your engine flows.

 It now got 251 rwhp on the dyno@10000rpm. 182Nm@7850rpm. Ignition pulled back 9 degrees. At 11000 rpm it will do around 270, power increase lineair. But max. power not like a turbo application on this boost level. Till 4000rpm it's a bit lazy(9:1 compr.) , after that fun to drive.



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Are you running it now without a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator? That is not ideal at all. You will lose injector flow a great deal with boost pressure, as well as a reduction in atomization, especially if you start at stock fuel pressure levels.

As for timing, removing 9 degrees is quite alot. I run ~ 30 degrees total timing on my turbo bike at 30+ psi boost without intercooling.

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I know, i already got a fuel press. reg, but you got to start somewere. After all i had to do the regulator immediately. I didn't know what to expect on boost level. Goal was to keep power around 240hp, but this is the smallest possible pulley ratio. Ignition is pulled back to be save as a starting point, running 98 oct. pump fuel. Exhaust side is not getting to hot due to retarding. So there's a lot more to get. First to do is IAP side, and that's causing some problems. So any idea if it makes a difference were to put the bypass: on the plenum or on the up pipe right behind the charger?

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changing the bypass position would not make a lot of difference , the flow path of the air may change but the actual pressure at the throttlebody would remain similar

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Did some riding this weekend after checking all vacuumlines etc. and cleaning the bypass valve. Same problem, as soon as the bike warms up, on cruising at low revs(<3500RPM) , it starts stuttering  on cruising.  One of the changes are that sec. throttle plates are open fully from idle on. Maybe  better to set it back to OEM settings till 3500rpm . Another thing is to put back the IAP sensor instead of the GM3bar thats now on. Or completely block off IAP and set fueling all by TPS , if possible. Another thing i thought about that it also could be just the other way around. Fueling not properly set on IAP affect Rpm ( rich/lean) and vacuum . But should be getting better after some autotuning, but it doesn't . So i got no idea were to look.



-- Edited by vampire on Monday 11th of June 2012 08:06:56 PM

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Do you have the 3 bar sensor on there without activating boost fueling??? that will upset it , either activate boost fuel and zero all the cells or put the std iap on and a pressure venting check valve
if you have tuned like this and compensated for the 3 bar in the tuning you may have to start again

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It's set on the dyno without activ boost fuel logging. I replaced std IAP for 3bar map sensor, but the tuner prefered to adjust fuel straigth to the IAP/TPS map, because it''s pretty lineair. I left the 3bar sensor there,( might need it in the future) expecting it to act the same as the OEM IAP sensor.
So when i understand well i have to activate the 'extended boostfuel option'and set compensation to zero and it should work. Is it correct that when it's tuned without activate the boostfuel (but with the 3bar sensor on it) fuel stays the same now as it was on the dyno ?
Btw, no problem to put it on the dyno again.
Thanks for your help !

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Activating the boost fuel option resets the calibration of the iat to suit the greater range of the 3 bar , your better off putting the std map sensor back on and getting creative with the maps to save some dyno time
Try cut and pasting a std iap map back into your .bin , it should not effect the tps much, but the std iap will need fine tuning

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Thank you. I'll put the OEM IAP sensor back on it on a Tee with a checkvalve and set Haya k8 std iap map.
Keep you informed.

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To be sure all was okay i first checked valve clearance and all vacuumlines. Put it back together and flashed Ecu to boostfuel and set values to zero and copied IAP basemap K8 to Ecu. As soon as bike warms up, same struttering again. Two more things to try: i ll take off the side exhausts and plug of the pipes right after the collector . They might influence the o2 sensor so it 's correcting fuel delivery. As long as there's no boost, the side pipes stay cold and i think air is pulsing in and out. When it's still stuttering then i'll disable the o2 sensor, and last to try is disable 3bar map sensor and plug off vacuumline and go TPS only. Other charger bikes don't have any problems on IAP, so i think i have to look were i gone different. Outside the engine the exhaust (4-4) system and increased header size .

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O2 sensor will not be actively influencing the mapping , there is something else going on,
save your current tuneup and flash a std busa or bk map in , even add +5% in the iap incase the SC is having an influence to eliminate a lean condition and put the std map sensor in , just eliminate changes untill you can identify the issue .


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The std busa IAP map was a little lean so i already added 5% from idle to 5000rpm all cells. I'll make a logfile to see what AFR does with the changed exhaust and then go back to the std IAP sensor.
Thanks for support.

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Put in the std IAP sensor on a tee with a oneway valve. I didn't change IAP fuelmap to see how it compares. Now low 10 AFR numbers. I'm a bit surprised. I tried the basemap K8 on IAP with boostfuel(all cells zero)GM3BarMAPsensor and the bike was running way to lean. Changing GM3bar MAP to OEM IAP sensor (no more boostfuel) and now it's far to rich on fuel on IAP. Something in converting OEM sensor to 3bar sensor values seems totally different at my bike. After two test rides and autotune it's still a little rich on the right side of the IAP map, but no more stuttering till now. Also set sec. injectors to 100% i.o 50/50 till 3000RPM , 30% TPS. When the weather is getting better i 'll make a longer ride to see what it's doing.



-- Edited by vampire on Sunday 24th of June 2012 06:30:37 PM

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Quite possible the boost fuel tables and 3 bar conversion are not 100% calibrated ,
good to see your getting results

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